The segulah of Amtelai bas Karnevo

(Cross-posted from parshablog)

Life in Israel takes note of an interesting segulah, which I hadn't heard of before -- that of saying Amtelai bas Karnevo, who midrashically is Avraham Avinu' mother, some number of times in order to get hatzlacha for X. Seems awfully superstitious to me. But anyway, he writes:

Today I found out that it is not just frum jews who are driven by the segulah craze, doing every segulah they hear of and ascribing more importance to many segulahs than to basic mitzvahs and behaviors. Traditional Jews always were known to do segulahs too, but today i found out the secular Jews do segulahs as well.

It seems there is a "segulah" to say the name Amtelai Bas Karnevo in order to be granted success. After some discussion with a secular jew who has done this and knows other people who do it as well, it seems it is a generic segulah and can be used for hatzlacha in almost any endeavor - she used it for a university test...

See there for the particular form of the segulah. He asks what its basis is. So I did a bit of research (or rather, Google search), and I accumulated the following.

Firstly, it seems that its basis is in the Chida. Thus, in a question and answer to hidabroot:

מי היתה אמתלאי בת כרנבו?

ומהי הסגולה לומר את שמה?

...

שלום וברכה

בתלמוד (מסכת בבא בתרא דף צא):ק

"אָמַר רַב חָנָן בַּר רַבָּא אָמַר רַב, אִימֵּיהּ דְּאַבְרָהָם - אַמְתְּלַאי בַת כַּרְנְבוֹ. אִימֵּיהּ דְּהָמָן - אַמְתְְּלַאי בַת עוֹרַבְתָּא. אִימֵּיהּ דְּדָוִד - נָצְבָת בַּת עֲדָאֵל שְׁמָהּ. אִימֵּיהּ דְּשִׁמְשׁוֹן - צְלָלְפוֹנִית. לְמַאי נַפְקָא מִינָא? לִתְשׁוּבַת הַמִּינִים".

וביארו ראשונים שזוהי הוכחה נגד האפיקורסים שאינם מודים בתורה שבעל פה אלא בתורה שבכתב בלבד. ולהם אנו עונים, אילולי הקבלה שבידינו איש מפי איש מנין היינו יודעים דברים אלו שאינם מפורשים בתורה שבכתב, ומאחר שאתם מודים בזה שהוא ממה שקבלנו איש מפי איש, ולא בדינו את הדברים מליבינו, תודו גם בתורה שהוא בעל פה וכל דבר שהוא בידינו, אינו אלא קבלה איש מפי איש.

ואכן יש בהזכרת שמה של אם אברהם אבינו סגולה, כפי שהביא הגאון החיד"א זצ"ל בספרו עבודת הקודש [כף אחת - ט]:ד

"סגולה להולך לפני מלך או שר ומושל. יאמר שבעה עשר פעמים אַמַתְלָאִי בַּת כַּרְנְבוֹ, קודם שיעמוד לפניו".

בהצלחה - מנשה ישראל

In terms of people recommending doing this, see here and here and here.

Perhaps the fact that it is a bit of knowledge, according to the give and take of the gemara (Bava Basra 91a) as a response to heretics, for this is only Oral knowledge, the merit of acknowledging this helps. But why specifically going before a melech or sar? Frankly, the whole thing smells of superstition to me. Next, we have to track down this Chida (in his sefer Avodat Hakodesh, Kaf Achat, 9) and see precisely what he says.

I would add one more reason to be wary. Amitlai, or rather Amiltai, is connected with the goat which nursed Zeus, and is the sign of the horn of plenty. This might then be connected with the segulah, in which case it might have roots in avodah zarah. Nothing sure, but here is the Jewish Encyclopedia article on the connection of the name Amiltai:

In Greek mythology, the goat, whose horn overflowing with nature's riches has become the symbol of plenty (the cornucopia), and that nursed the infant god Zeus with her milk. This name occurs twice in ancient Jewish legend: (1) Job's daughter, Kerenhappuch (Job, xlii. 14), is translated in the Septuagint "Amalthea's Horn," wherein the Hebrew words are reproduced. This daughter of Job, Amalthea's Horn, plays a prominent rôle as a type of saintly beauty in the "Testament of Job"—a Jewish apocrypha (see Kohler, "Testament of Job" in "Semitic Studies in Memory of Al. Kohut," p. 288); her "unicorn-like beauty" and her "smaragd-like radiance" are dwelt on also in B. B. 16b. (2) The name of Abraham's mother, called Edna (the Graceful One) in the Book of Jubilees (xi. 13), is said by Rab (B. B. 91a) to have been Amiltai, the daughter of Karnebo, which seems to be a corrupt reproduction of Amalthea-Keren-happuch, the daughter of Job—Job's and Abraham's histories being constantly interwoven in ancient legend. Possibly the Zeus legend prompted the name, as it is narrated that the infant Abraham was miraculously nourished by milk and honey in the cave where he was hidden.

Perhaps more as more surfaces.

Update: Here is more. I found it the Chida's sefer Avodat Hakodesh, Kaf Achat, 9. This is what he writes (starting at the bottom of the page):

Segulah-izing prayer for others

In the fairly recent past, two websites have emerged with the sake of turning davening for others into a segulah. This is being endorsed by various rabbonim, and in one case, appears to draw its inspiration from an incident related by Rabbi Paysach Krohn, and there from a Talmudic statement. Thus:

His arguments were to no avail. Mrs. Efrat, who was a baalas teshuvah (one who had come to Torah Judaism of her own volition), said that she didn't know any tzaddikim, Rebbes or any other prominent Roshei Yeshivah whom she could easily relate to or speak openly with. That is why she desired to receive a berachah from Rabbi Gutman.

He thought quietly for a few moments and then said to Mrs. Efrat, "I want you to know that I feel your anguish and I share your pain. I myself have a daughter living in Milwaukee, who has been married for more than ten years and has never borne a child. The Gemara (Bava Kama 92A) instructs us 'If one has a problem and prays for another who has the identical problem, he who has prayed will be answered first.'

Let us make an agreement between us. You pray for my daughter and I will pray for you."

Now it was Mrs. Efrat who was struck by another's anguish. The personal pain that Rabbi Gutman had unexpectedly shared with her, and the unique suggestion he proposed, bonded the young woman with the renowned individual who sat before her. She felt an inner serenity and knew that regardless of what the future held, her trip had been worthwhile.

One website is www.kolhamevakeish.org, where they match up groups of 11 people, so that each person has a minyan of people praying on their behalf. The earlier one is davenx.torah.org. The idea is that if you pray for someone else, you will get answered first. But doesn't this pose a logical and theological problem? How can anyone get answered first, if each person is praying for the other person? :)

Why has this not been done in previous generations? This is a trait of our generation, that turns every inspiring statement into a segulah. Thus e.g. challah-baking groups, and giving tzedaka as a segulah. It probably also has to do with the organizational power which is possible with the Internet.

Anyway, the gemara in Bava Kamma 92a reads:

Raba said to Rabbah b. Mari: Whence can be derived the lesson taught by our Rabbis that one who solicits mercy for his fellow while he himself is in need of the same thing, [will be answered first]? — He replied: As it is written:And the Lord changed the fortune of Job when he prayed for his friends. He said to him: You say it is from that text, but I say it is from this text: 'And Abraham prayed unto God and God healed Abimelech and his wife and his maidservants,' and immediately after it says: And the Lord remembered Sarah as he had said, etc., [i.e.] asAbraham had [prayed and] said regarding Abimelech.

The thing is, in neither of these two examples was the Biblical character doing this as a trick, to force Hashem to fulfill one's will. Rather, they were able to put aside their own "selfish" concerns and focus on other people's needs, even where the other person had the same need as himself. This is an excellent trait to have and develop. And then, in reward for such a good attitude, when Hashem answers, He even first turns to help the individual who did not think of himself first. This is an inspirational message, rather than a trick.

But if someone would not be davening for other people having the same condition, except that he or she heard of this gemara and of this segulah trick, then are they really davening for the other person? Or are they really davening for themselves, in a clever roundabout fashion? Are you developing within yourself, or manifesting, this trait of caring for others and not just your own narrow concerns?